Re: interface for "non-SQL people"

On Fri, October 9, 2009 09:06, Andrew Gould wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 19:16 -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Merlin Moncure <mmoncure@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The #1 tool you have at your disposal is the human brain.  I
>>> > personally think GUI database tools are counter productive and huge
>>> > time wasters.  SQL requires lateral thinking but once you have your
>>> > head around how joins work and the general syntax of queries you
>>> > should have no problem getting data out of your database.   SQL is a
>>> > 'man machine interface' :-).  It's a very high level language with a
>>> > lot of power.  The gui 'wrappers' that I've seen actually obfuscate
>>> > the concepts.
>>>
>>> Amen to that.  I'd rather spend a little bit of my time each week
>>> going over correlated subqueries with a user than trying to get good
>>> performance on a reporting server that's hammered by bad queries.
>>> Which is what a lot of query builders basically do.
>>
>> Good lord people. Not be helpful much? This guy is obviously not an SQL
>> guy and nor should he have to be. My guess is he is an analyst sitting
>> in a company somewhere that just wants to whip together some simple data
>> entry reports or contact forms.
>>
>> There is *zero* reason he should have to dig around in the confounded
>> tar pit of SQL. Not everyone can be an SQL guru.
>>
>> To answer the question.
>>
>> Open Office has a forms interface that works with PostgreSQL
>> You can use MS Access
>> You have use Kexi (KDE)
>>
>> There is also one written in GTK and Python but I don't recall the
>> name...
>>
>> JD... Who sits in bewilderment
>>
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> If the poster works in MS Windows, MS Access is the easiest, most
> powerful and most flexible solution .... for a client application.  I
> use it for complex ad hoc projects as well as creating applications.
> To keep maintenance simple, should I get hit by the proverbial bus, I
> do not use any manually created code (SQL or VB) in my projects.  I
> use complex combinations of functions, but even those are typed within
> the QBE (query by example) window.
>
> Much of MS Access's comparative value comes from the fact that it
> treats local tables, select queries and links to external data sources
> as if they were all local tables.  This means that you can nest
> queries easily or join local tables to external tables.  You can even
> join tables from different database servers.  Documentation for MS
> Access is plentiful.
>
> Keep in mind that MS Access does not share well and that the files
> become corrupt/unusable when they reach 2GB (less admin resources for
> tables, queries, etc) in size.
>
> The down-side of GUI clients and ODBC connections is that you will not
> be able to use features that are specific to the database server.
>
> Most GUI database front-ends available for unix operating systems
> focus on database administration as opposed to serious data analysis.
> I tried Kexi and OpenOffice Base briefly, but became frustrated trying
> to work with both local and remote data within the same project.
>
> Gnuplot and R provide graphical views of data; but you still have to
> write code (not SQL) manually.  You also have to export data from the
> database server in order to feed the data to these applications.
>
> My rule of thumb for analysis is this:  If I'm working in Windows PC,
> I use MS Access.  If I'm working in *BSD or Linux, I store SQL code in
> text files and am careful to use a naming scheme that facilitates
> management of those files.
>
> I have tried using Windows and MS Access within virtual machines.  It
> works for small and simple queries.  If you're doing large jobs or
> complex analysis, however, you may have issues with memory management.
>
> Here's some PostgreSQL-specific information:
>
> If you are using MS Access as a client to a PostgreSQL server via
> ODBC, you should keep the following in mind:
>       1.  In the ODBC data source configuration, use true = -1.
>       2.  In the database server, null values should not be allowed
> for boolean (true/false, yes/no) data fields.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

I would also add that there are a LOT of performance issues with MS
Access.  For one, in some cases filtering out records with a where clause
can be performed on the client side - meaning it grabs all records and
pulls them across the network and then filters out the results only
displyaing the results you want to see.  I've seen this happen a lot at my
company, but it may be related to the type of queries being run, so you
may experience different results.

Tim
--
Timothy J. Bruce

Registered Linux User #325725