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pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Mark Lascelles
Дата:
Hi,

If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me 
know. I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because 
pgAdmin 3 often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, 
but am not sure if a fix is in progress?

Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File 
in Query Tool:

- Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow 
(Windows 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.

- I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which 
drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch 
to my other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the 
file path directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for 
me currently. Beta 1 did allow directory changes.

- Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though 
there's much more space available. This means I can't distinguish 
between a lot of the files I need to.

- When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not 
by name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work

I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the 
native Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and 
more fully featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories 
within it. Perhaps it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.

I appreciate the work you are doing,

Regards,
Mark



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <mark@lascell.es> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me know.
> I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because pgAdmin 3
> often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, but am not
> sure if a fix is in progress?
>
> Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File in
> Query Tool:
>
> - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow (Windows
> 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.
>
> - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which
> drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch to my
> other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file path
> directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me currently.
> Beta 1 did allow directory changes.
>
> - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though there's
> much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot of
> the files I need to.
>
> - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not by
> name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work
>
> I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the native
> Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more fully
> featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it. Perhaps
> it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.
>
> I appreciate the work you are doing,

Hi

It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage
either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if
running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area
by specifying a path in the config_local.py file - this is the
default:

##########################################################################
# Storage Manager storage url config settings
# If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
# is Windows, '/' if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.

# For example:
# 1. STORAGE_DIR = get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default
# where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G" etc
# 2. Set path manually like
# STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"
##########################################################################
STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(   DATA_DIR,   'storage'
)

In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Anthony DeBarros
Дата:
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Where is config_local.py located on OS X and Windows?</span><br
/></div><divclass="gmail_extra"><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <span
dir="ltr"><<ahref="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org" target="_blank">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>></span> wrote:<br
/><blockquoteclass="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Sep 2,
2016at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <<a href="mailto:mark@lascell.es">mark@lascell.es</a>> wrote:<br /> > Hi,<br
/>><br /> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me know.<br /> > I am trying
toswitch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because pgAdmin 3<br /> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that
isa known issue, but am not<br /> > sure if a fix is in progress?<br /> ><br /> > Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have
noticedthe following when Opening a File in<br /> > Query Tool:<br /> ><br /> > - Clicking the icon to open
the"Select file" popup is very slow (Windows<br /> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin
3.<br/> ><br /> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which<br /> > drive/directory I'm
alreadyin (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch to my<br /> > other drives where the files I want are located. I
can'tedit the file path<br /> > directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me currently.<br />
>Beta 1 did allow directory changes.<br /> ><br /> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown
eventhough there's<br /> > much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot of<br /> > the
filesI need to.<br /> ><br /> > - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not by<br />
>name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work<br /> ><br /> > I appreciate the preference
fora consistent look and feel, but the native<br /> > Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker
andmore fully<br /> > featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it. Perhaps<br /> > it
doesn'twork with the new web based paradigm though.<br /> ><br /> > I appreciate the work you are doing,<br /><br
/>Hi<br /><br /> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage<br /> either on the local machine
indesktop mode, or on the server if<br /> running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area<br /> by
specifyinga path in the config_local.py file - this is the<br /> default:<br /><br />
##############################<wbr/>##############################<wbr />##############<br /> # Storage Manager storage
urlconfig settings<br /> # If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform<br /> # is Windows,
'/'if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.<br /><br /> # For example:<br /> # 1. STORAGE_DIR =
get_drive("C")or get_drive() # return C:/ by default<br /> # where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G"
etc<br/> # 2. Set path manually like<br /> # STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"<br />
##############################<wbr/>##############################<wbr />##############<br /> STORAGE_DIR =
os.path.join(<br/>     DATA_DIR,<br />     'storage'<br /> )<br /><br /> In desktop mode, you should have access to all
filesystems.<br/><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br /> --<br /> Dave Page<br /> Blog: <a
href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> Twitter:
@pgsnake<br/><br /> EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Sent
viapgadmin-support mailing list (<a href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr
/>org</a>)<br/> To make changes to your subscription:<br /><a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr />mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br
/></font></span></blockquote></div><br/></div> 

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Anthony DeBarros <adebarros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is config_local.py located on OS X and Windows?

In the web/ directory of the installation. In a Mac app bundle you'll
find that in Contents/Resources (right-click the bundle, and select
Show Package Contents).

You shouldn't need to modify the setting on a desktop installation -
but having said that, I don't actually see drives listed on my Windows
installation, only the folders at C:\. Ashesh; is there a Windows
issue here?

On Mac, there are no drives of course so it works fine here.

> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <mark@lascell.es> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me
>> > know.
>> > I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because
>> > pgAdmin 3
>> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, but am not
>> > sure if a fix is in progress?
>> >
>> > Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File
>> > in
>> > Query Tool:
>> >
>> > - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow
>> > (Windows
>> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.
>> >
>> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which
>> > drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch
>> > to my
>> > other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file
>> > path
>> > directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me
>> > currently.
>> > Beta 1 did allow directory changes.
>> >
>> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though
>> > there's
>> > much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot
>> > of
>> > the files I need to.
>> >
>> > - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not
>> > by
>> > name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work
>> >
>> > I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the
>> > native
>> > Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more
>> > fully
>> > featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it.
>> > Perhaps
>> > it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.
>> >
>> > I appreciate the work you are doing,
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage
>> either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if
>> running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area
>> by specifying a path in the config_local.py file - this is the
>> default:
>>
>> ##########################################################################
>> # Storage Manager storage url config settings
>> # If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
>> # is Windows, '/' if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.
>>
>> # For example:
>> # 1. STORAGE_DIR = get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default
>> # where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G" etc
>> # 2. Set path manually like
>> # STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"
>> ##########################################################################
>> STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(
>>     DATA_DIR,
>>     'storage'
>> )
>>
>> In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (pgadmin-support@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support
>
>



-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Anthony DeBarros
Дата:
Tried setting this in in config_local.py on Mac:

STORAGE_DIR = '/Users/adebarros/path/to/files/'

Saved file, restarted pgAdmin 4. Opened query tool and open file dialog, and it's still pointing at root.

Meanwhile, the other issues Mark Lascelles pointed out really need to be addressed to make this file dialog workable if you can't use the native OS dialogs:

-- folder and file names need to be sortable
-- need to show more than the first few characters of the directory or file name.
-- ought to be able to select/open a file by double clicking on it.
-- ability to enter path in the dialog to go straight there.



On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Anthony DeBarros <adebarros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is config_local.py located on OS X and Windows?

In the web/ directory of the installation. In a Mac app bundle you'll
find that in Contents/Resources (right-click the bundle, and select
Show Package Contents).

You shouldn't need to modify the setting on a desktop installation -
but having said that, I don't actually see drives listed on my Windows
installation, only the folders at C:\. Ashesh; is there a Windows
issue here?

On Mac, there are no drives of course so it works fine here.

> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <mark@lascell.es> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me
>> > know.
>> > I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because
>> > pgAdmin 3
>> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, but am not
>> > sure if a fix is in progress?
>> >
>> > Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File
>> > in
>> > Query Tool:
>> >
>> > - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow
>> > (Windows
>> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.
>> >
>> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which
>> > drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch
>> > to my
>> > other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file
>> > path
>> > directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me
>> > currently.
>> > Beta 1 did allow directory changes.
>> >
>> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though
>> > there's
>> > much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot
>> > of
>> > the files I need to.
>> >
>> > - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not
>> > by
>> > name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work
>> >
>> > I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the
>> > native
>> > Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more
>> > fully
>> > featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it.
>> > Perhaps
>> > it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.
>> >
>> > I appreciate the work you are doing,
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage
>> either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if
>> running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area
>> by specifying a path in the config_local.py file - this is the
>> default:
>>
>> ##########################################################################
>> # Storage Manager storage url config settings
>> # If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
>> # is Windows, '/' if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.
>>
>> # For example:
>> # 1. STORAGE_DIR = get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default
>> # where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G" etc
>> # 2. Set path manually like
>> # STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"
>> ##########################################################################
>> STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(
>>     DATA_DIR,
>>     'storage'
>> )
>>
>> In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (pgadmin-support@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support
>
>



--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Surinder Kumar
Дата:
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Dave Page <span
dir="ltr"><<ahref="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org" target="_blank">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>></span> wrote:<br /></div><div
class="gmail_extra"><divclass="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#cccsolid;padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Anthony DeBarros <<a
href="mailto:adebarros@gmail.com">adebarros@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br /> > Where is config_local.py located on OS X
andWindows?<br /><br /> In the web/ directory of the installation. In a Mac app bundle you'll<br /> find that in
Contents/Resources(right-click the bundle, and select<br /> Show Package Contents).<br /><br /> You shouldn't need to
modifythe setting on a desktop installation -<br /> but having said that, I don't actually see drives listed on my
Windows<br/> installation, only the folders at C:\. Ashesh; is there a Windows<br /> issue
here? </blockquote><blockquoteclass="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div
class="gmail_default"style="font-size:small;display:inline">​I checked the code and found that​ this</div> is a
regressionof RM1397. ​I will fix i<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;display:inline">​t​</div> and send
apatch.</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><br/> On Mac, there are no drives of course so it works fine here.<br /><br /> > On Fri, Sep
2,2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <<a href="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>> wrote:<br /> >><br
/>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <<a href="mailto:mark@lascell.es">mark@lascell.es</a>>
wrote:<br/> >> > Hi,<br /> >> ><br /> >> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4
feedback,please let me<br /> >> > know.<br /> >> > I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though
itsbeta, because<br /> >> > pgAdmin 3<br /> >> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a
knownissue, but am not<br /> >> > sure if a fix is in progress?<br /> >> ><br /> >> >
Anyway,in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File<br /> >> > in<br /> >> > Query
Tool:<br/> >> ><br /> >> > - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow<br />
>>> (Windows<br /> >> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.<br />
>>><br /> >> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which<br /> >> >
drive/directoryI'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch<br /> >> > to my<br /> >> >
otherdrives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file<br /> >> > path<br /> >> >
directlyto change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me<br /> >> > currently.<br /> >> > Beta
1did allow directory changes.<br /> >> ><br /> >> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are
showneven though<br /> >> > there's<br /> >> > much more space available. This means I can't
distinguishbetween a lot<br /> >> > of<br /> >> > the files I need to.<br /> >> ><br />
>>> - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not<br /> >> > by<br />
>>> name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work<br /> >> ><br /> >> > I
appreciatethe preference for a consistent look and feel, but the<br /> >> > native<br /> >> > Windows
OpenFile dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more<br /> >> > fully<br /> >> > featured
e.g.I can rename and move files and directories within it.<br /> >> > Perhaps<br /> >> > it doesn't
workwith the new web based paradigm though.<br /> >> ><br /> >> > I appreciate the work you are
doing,<br/> >><br /> >> Hi<br /> >><br /> >> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work
withfile storage<br /> >> either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if<br /> >> running
inserver mode. You can control the root of the storage area<br /> >> by specifying a path in the config_local.py
file- this is the<br /> >> default:<br /> >><br /> >> ##############################<wbr
/>##############################<wbr/>##############<br /> >> # Storage Manager storage url config settings<br />
>># If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform<br /> >> # is Windows, '/' if it
isLinux, Mac or any other unix type system.<br /> >><br /> >> # For example:<br /> >> # 1.
STORAGE_DIR= get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default<br /> >> # where C can be any drive character
suchas "D", "E", "G" etc<br /> >> # 2. Set path manually like<br /> >> # STORAGE_DIR =
"/path/to/directory/"<br/> >> ##############################<wbr />##############################<wbr
/>##############<br/> >> STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(<br /> >>     DATA_DIR,<br /> >>     'storage'<br
/>>> )<br /> >><br /> >> In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.<br />
>><br/> >> --<br /> >> Dave Page<br /> >> Blog: <a href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> >> Twitter: @pgsnake<br /> >><br />
>>EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> >> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /> >><br />
>><br/> >> --<br /> >> Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (<a
href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr/>org</a>)<br /> >> To make changes
toyour subscription:<br /> >> <a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr/>mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br /> ><br /> ><br /><span
class="HOEnZb"><fontcolor="#888888"><br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Dave Page<br /> Blog: <a
href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> Twitter:
@pgsnake<br/><br /> EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Sent
viapgadmin-support mailing list (<a href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr
/>org</a>)<br/> To make changes to your subscription:<br /><a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr />mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br
/></font></span></blockquote></div><br/></div></div> 

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:
Hello. I just started using pgAdmin 4, and first of all let me say it looks
very promising. Works much better on high DPI displays.

And I especially like that it is no longer affected so much by high latency
network connections. The old pgAdmin really struggled when the database was
on a different continent than the client computer. It seems pgAdmin III was
doing a lot of round trips over the network for some operations.

That being said, I think there is still room for improvement for the user
interface. In particular, I don't think replacing the native operating
system file open dialog was the greatest idea. This introduces a lot of
limitations, and even the stuff that works has some issues.

My greatest problem with the file dialog is that you can't paste a
file/folder path in it. Or copy the current path for that matter. Or type
the file path manually in any way.

Aside from the inconvenience of having to navigate manually, that means
that, on Windows, you can't open a file directly from a network share that
is not mapped to a drive letter. Or save it directly to a network share. Or
navigate to a network share folder, because you can't type a file path like
\\host\share\folder\folder\file.sql

Also you can't open a file directly from the web, because you can't enter
something like http://host/path/file.sql in the dialog box.

And finally, when navigating through the folders/drives using the current
version (1.0), double clicking on the folder/drive icons doesn't seem to
work. You have to double click on the folder name/drive name. Also the
dialog opens quite slowly.

So, in my opinion, if technically feasible, the decision to replace the
native OS file open dialog with a platform independent dialog should be
reversed. I think the problems it introduces outweigh any benefits.




--
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http://postgresql.nabble.com/pgAdmin-4-1-0-beta4-Query-Tool-Select-file-popup-issues-tp5919048p5927613.html
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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
Hi

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 PM, vnicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello. I just started using pgAdmin 4, and first of all let me say it looks
> very promising. Works much better on high DPI displays.

Thanks.

> And I especially like that it is no longer affected so much by high latency
> network connections. The old pgAdmin really struggled when the database was
> on a different continent than the client computer. It seems pgAdmin III was
> doing a lot of round trips over the network for some operations.

That was one of the most important changes for us. Even if there is a
connection failure, recovery should be as seamless as possible.

> That being said, I think there is still room for improvement for the user
> interface. In particular, I don't think replacing the native operating
> system file open dialog was the greatest idea. This introduces a lot of
> limitations, and even the stuff that works has some issues.
>
> My greatest problem with the file dialog is that you can't paste a
> file/folder path in it. Or copy the current path for that matter. Or type
> the file path manually in any way.
>
> Aside from the inconvenience of having to navigate manually, that means
> that, on Windows, you can't open a file directly from a network share that
> is not mapped to a drive letter. Or save it directly to a network share. Or
> navigate to a network share folder, because you can't type a file path like
> \\host\share\folder\folder\file.sql
>
> Also you can't open a file directly from the web, because you can't enter
> something like http://host/path/file.sql in the dialog box.
>
> And finally, when navigating through the folders/drives using the current
> version (1.0), double clicking on the folder/drive icons doesn't seem to
> work. You have to double click on the folder name/drive name. Also the
> dialog opens quite slowly.
>
> So, in my opinion, if technically feasible, the decision to replace the
> native OS file open dialog with a platform independent dialog should be
> reversed. I think the problems it introduces outweigh any benefits.

I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
server, not the client. Secondly, for security reasons browsers
(including webkit which is used in our desktop runtime) seriously
limit what can be done with files on the client. As a simple example,
if you edit a query that you loaded from a file in the query tool, you
couldn't just hit "Save" and carry on. You'd have to hit Save, then
use the native dialogue to download the file and save it. It would be
significantly more cumbersome.

So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
support features like you suggest.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Michal Kozusznik
Дата:
On 26.10.2016 10:58, Dave Page wrote:
> I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
> using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
> server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
> server, not the client.
(...)
> So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
> where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
> However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
> support features like you suggest.

What server mode you mean? Doesn't sql file is intended to be loaded
into client app edit form from local machine? Server shouldn't be
involved into this process.
If making possible to open sql files from server space and storing them
onto server was a goal then to me it seems to be a misconception.

Another thing is using custom UI components which break user experience.
Applications should be designed to be seamless regarding look and usage
flow across operation system they run. For example file browser in image
editor should look and work the same way as in text or programming editor.

It all comes from best practices for UI design.

with regards
MK



Вложения

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 10:58, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
>> using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
>> server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
>> server, not the client.
>
> (...)
>>
>> So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
>> where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
>> However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
>> support features like you suggest.
>
>
> What server mode you mean?

pgAdmin server mode.

> Doesn't sql file is intended to be loaded into
> client app edit form from local machine? Server shouldn't be involved into
> this process.

No, in server mode storage is on the server.

> If making possible to open sql files from server space and storing them onto
> server was a goal then to me it seems to be a misconception.

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

> Another thing is using custom UI components which break user experience.
> Applications should be designed to be seamless regarding look and usage flow
> across operation system they run. For example file browser in image editor
> should look and work the same way as in text or programming editor.
>
> It all comes from best practices for UI design.

I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.


-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Michal Kozusznik
Дата:
On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>
> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
> reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server.
It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to
work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

>
> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>
What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin
having different file browser appearance across various operating
systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have
UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
work out together.

with regards
MK


Вложения

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
André Cardoso
Дата:
Reason to work with files stored on server: dump/backup file

Do you already worked with Microsoft SQL Server? If you do, then you know some things are more secure at server side than client side... IMHO...



2016-10-26 13:00 GMT-02:00 Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz>:
On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work


I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.

What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would work out together.

with regards
MK



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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Michal Kozusznik
Дата:
I can only say, that making dump files on server side is neither good practice or practical. In both cases there are multiple reasons why not do that.
And in most cases it's automated job, which this usecase irrelevant for pgAdmin.

I can admit it might be handsome in some (lazy/amateur) usecases. But it shouldn't be used to drift requirements and user experience wrong way

best regards
MK


On 26.10.2016 17:19, André Cardoso wrote:
Reason to work with files stored on server: dump/backup file

Do you already worked with Microsoft SQL Server? If you do, then you know some things are more secure at server side than client side... IMHO...



2016-10-26 13:00 GMT-02:00 Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz>:
On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work


I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.

What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would work out together.

with regards
MK



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Вложения

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
André Cardoso
Дата:
Well... Looks like you don't have any experience with SQL Server... 
Oracle works pretty the same way with dump files... At server side... Same with backup files...

I think the lazy/amateur guy here is only you...

2016-10-26 13:31 GMT-02:00 Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz>:
I can only say, that making dump files on server side is neither good practice or practical. In both cases there are multiple reasons why not do that.
And in most cases it's automated job, which this usecase irrelevant for pgAdmin.

I can admit it might be handsome in some (lazy/amateur) usecases. But it shouldn't be used to drift requirements and user experience wrong way

best regards
MK



On 26.10.2016 17:19, André Cardoso wrote:
Reason to work with files stored on server: dump/backup file

Do you already worked with Microsoft SQL Server? If you do, then you know some things are more secure at server side than client side... IMHO...



2016-10-26 13:00 GMT-02:00 Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz>:
On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work


I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.

What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would work out together.

with regards
MK



--
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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>>
>> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
>> reasons for them.
>
>
> So just list the reasons, please.
> IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It
> could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work
> with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
or more instances of pgAdmin.

>> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
>> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>>
> What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having
> different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's
> non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in
> environment it's running under.

I mean having to use our own dialogues in some places where native
ones cannot work, and native ones in other places.

> With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
> work out together.

Except as I pointed out, we have little control over native dialogues
because web browsers have security concerns that cause them to limit
access to the client filesystem.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 18:00
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>
> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
> reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server.
It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to
work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

>
> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>
What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin
having different file browser appearance across various operating
systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have
UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
work out together.

with regards
MK



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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:

There is all this talk about web browsers, and server instances shared by multiple users. While that is nice to have in some situations, me and the other people in my team currently have no use for that.

 

My use case is installing pgAdmin locally on my workstation as an application that will run standalone (what you call the “desktop runtime”), not as an web app. And having the various SQL files that I use to do my development and ops work locally on my computer.

 

This means I need to be able to navigate files and folders quickly with an easy to use UI, that is preferably the OS native dialog.

 

As it is now, by default I have to click a lot of folders until I reach the local folder with the SQL files. And it doesn’t even remember the last folder used. If I want to open another file, I need to navigate through the hierarchy of folders again. There is no history of previously open files, and it doesn’t allow me to pin favorite folders. I can’t type folder / file names and have them autocomplete automatically.

 

In theory, alls this could be implemented as features in the non-native file dialog. But I think it would be much easier from a development point of view and better for the users to just use the native OS file dialog for standalone client installations (the desktop runtime).

 

Having to navigate the file system manually only using the mouse feels like being forced to write SQL queries using a graphical query builder. Or like removing the terminals and shells from an operating system. I feel like I’m working with my hands tied when I need to use the current file picker.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 18:39
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michal Kozusznik
<[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>>
>> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
>> reasons for them.
>
>
> So just list the reasons, please.
> IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It
> could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work
> with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
or more instances of pgAdmin.

>> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
>> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>>
> What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having
> different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's
> non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in
> environment it's running under.

I mean having to use our own dialogues in some places where native
ones cannot work, and native ones in other places.

> With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
> work out together.

Except as I pointed out, we have little control over native dialogues
because web browsers have security concerns that cause them to limit
access to the client filesystem.

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company


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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:


On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 6:13 PM, vnicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:

There is all this talk about web browsers, and server instances shared by multiple users. While that is nice to have in some situations, me and the other people in my team currently have no use for that.


Maybe not, but others do.
 

 

My use case is installing pgAdmin locally on my workstation as an application that will run standalone (what you call the “desktop runtime”), not as an web app. And having the various SQL files that I use to do my development and ops work locally on my computer.

 

This means I need to be able to navigate files and folders quickly with an easy to use UI, that is preferably the OS native dialog.

 

As it is now, by default I have to click a lot of folders until I reach the local folder with the SQL files. And it doesn’t even remember the last folder used. If I want to open another file, I need to navigate through the hierarchy of folders again. There is no history of previously open files, and it doesn’t allow me to pin favorite folders. I can’t type folder / file names and have them autocomplete automatically.


Which are issues we fully intend to resolve.
 

 

In theory, alls this could be implemented as features in the non-native file dialog. But I think it would be much easier from a development point of view and better for the users to just use the native OS file dialog for standalone client installations (the desktop runtime).


As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari). Those security measures minimise the use of the dialogues to downloading files and form based uploads, which would make use of them very cumbersome for this purpose. We wouldn't be able to track recently used files and allow them to be opened from a menu, nor would we be able to to "Save" a file - it would always be "Save As", with no way for us to control the default directory (even if it was a file you just opened).

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Michal Kozusznik
Дата:
On 26.10.2016 17:38, Dave Page wrote:
> Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
> or more instances of pgAdmin.

After reading your recent responses to various posts I think I'm
starting to understand that the issue lays in the main role pgAdmin4 is
designed for.
It seems, you want it to be server administrative tool while pgAdmin3 is
not for sure.

pgAdmin3 is db design tool more than administration one. Actually it has
nothing to do with administration. Ability to make ad-hoc backups or
vacuums doesn't make it 'administration tool'
It's just GUI extended SQL console. Developers love it just because it's
lightweight, fast and simple.

What I understood, you want pgAdmin4 to be more administration tool than
design/development tool. It's ok. However in my opinion it's not going
to work this way. Probably it will cover a very subset of administrative
functions which might be useful for beginners. In turn, pro
administrators will still use a console while pgAdmin4 as administration
tool will end up unused.
Let's get backup feature as example. IMO no one will use it in
production. It's because production requires more complex scenarios than
execute single command. Even storing backup files onto server (which
server file browsers are intended to help with) might be bad idea in
production. On the other hand it could be useful for developers but they
usually stores backup file onto local disk. So again: browsing server
filesystem is useless.

Mix of administration and development features wouldn't be bad at all,
if it doesn't negatively affect workflow of users belong to
developers/designers userbase. Unfortunately it's what happens right
now: pgAdmin4 is slow and stripped of some basic OS features as price of
being more server oriented.

I don't know if I'm expressing my self as clear as I want (language
barrier), but as you can see, people rise the same issue again and
again. All of them belongs to the same group: db developers/designers.
In my guess pgAdmin might loose great part of userbase, greater than is
able to acquire thanks to new functionality. Of course you can be OK
with it but for sure it doesn't seem to be win for anybody.

with regards
MK


Вложения

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 17:38, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>> Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
>> or more instances of pgAdmin.
>
>
> After reading your recent responses to various posts I think I'm starting to
> understand that the issue lays in the main role pgAdmin4 is designed for.
> It seems, you want it to be server administrative tool while pgAdmin3 is not
> for sure.
>
> pgAdmin3 is db design tool more than administration one. Actually it has
> nothing to do with administration. Ability to make ad-hoc backups or vacuums
> doesn't make it 'administration tool'
> It's just GUI extended SQL console. Developers love it just because it's
> lightweight, fast and simple.
>
> What I understood, you want pgAdmin4 to be more administration tool than
> design/development tool. It's ok. However in my opinion it's not going to
> work this way. Probably it will cover a very subset of administrative
> functions which might be useful for beginners. In turn, pro administrators
> will still use a console while pgAdmin4 as administration tool will end up
> unused.
> Let's get backup feature as example. IMO no one will use it in production.
> It's because production requires more complex scenarios than execute single
> command. Even storing backup files onto server (which server file browsers
> are intended to help with) might be bad idea in production. On the other
> hand it could be useful for developers but they usually stores backup file
> onto local disk. So again: browsing server filesystem is useless.
>
> Mix of administration and development features wouldn't be bad at all, if it
> doesn't negatively affect workflow of users belong to developers/designers
> userbase. Unfortunately it's what happens right now: pgAdmin4 is slow and
> stripped of some basic OS features as price of being more server oriented.
>
> I don't know if I'm expressing my self as clear as I want (language
> barrier), but as you can see, people rise the same issue again and again.
> All of them belongs to the same group: db developers/designers. In my guess
> pgAdmin might loose great part of userbase, greater than is able to acquire
> thanks to new functionality. Of course you can be OK with it but for sure it
> doesn't seem to be win for anybody.

That is simply incorrect. pgAdmin 4 is aimed at exactly the same
audience as pgAdmin III - it just takes into account that more and
more people want a web based solution - so we aim to cater for both,
and in some cases, that means we have to do things in slightly
different ways.

This was not done on a whim - it was based on all manner of feedback
from users, as well as research into industry trends over a number of
years.

We have put over 15000 hours of development, QA, and doc writing time
into pgAdmin 4 and give it away for free. We're well aware there are
some rough edges and things that need improving; and fully intend to
put effort into doing so. Many of those issues only become apparent
when a product starts to be used in the field, and outside of our QA.

Ultimately though, we have a new product which frees us from much of
the technical debt in pgAdmin III (that caused many of the issues
you've complained of in the past that were very difficult to resolve),
and allows us the opportunity to vastly improve on what we had before.

pgAdmin remains Open Source, and whilst I wish I had another 10
developers to assign to it permanently, I simply don't so some things
will not get fixed or changed immediately. As is always the case
though, additional contributions are welcome. The best Open Source
projects are always the ones with a diverse set of contributors.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:

You said “As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari).”

 

I use Slack and it is also based on webkit, and it uses the native file dialog for file uploads.

 

Another thing I just noticed is that after opening SQL files the tabs contain the full file path. This means that, as soon as I open more than two SQL files, the tab list needs scrolling to see them:

 

http://i.imgur.com/VjTMk4H.png

 

One way to fit more tabs would be to have a vertical tab list instead of horizontal.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

 

 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 6:13 PM, vnicolici <[hidden email]> wrote:

There is all this talk about web browsers, and server instances shared by multiple users. While that is nice to have in some situations, me and the other people in my team currently have no use for that.

 

Maybe not, but others do.

 

 

My use case is installing pgAdmin locally on my workstation as an application that will run standalone (what you call the “desktop runtime”), not as an web app. And having the various SQL files that I use to do my development and ops work locally on my computer.

 

This means I need to be able to navigate files and folders quickly with an easy to use UI, that is preferably the OS native dialog.

 

As it is now, by default I have to click a lot of folders until I reach the local folder with the SQL files. And it doesn’t even remember the last folder used. If I want to open another file, I need to navigate through the hierarchy of folders again. There is no history of previously open files, and it doesn’t allow me to pin favorite folders. I can’t type folder / file names and have them autocomplete automatically.

 

Which are issues we fully intend to resolve.

 

 

In theory, alls this could be implemented as features in the non-native file dialog. But I think it would be much easier from a development point of view and better for the users to just use the native OS file dialog for standalone client installations (the desktop runtime).

 

As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari). Those security measures minimise the use of the dialogues to downloading files and form based uploads, which would make use of them very cumbersome for this purpose. We wouldn't be able to track recently used files and allow them to be opened from a menu, nor would we be able to to "Save" a file - it would always be "Save As", with no way for us to control the default directory (even if it was a file you just opened).

 

--

Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

 

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Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
Dave Page
Дата:


On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:06 PM, vnicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:

You said “As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari).”

 

I use Slack and it is also based on webkit, and it uses the native file dialog for file uploads.


If you selectively edit what I wrote, it'll always be easy to argue a point with me. Please read the paragraph in full:

As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari). Those security measures minimise the use of the dialogues to downloading files and form based uploads, which would make use of them very cumbersome for this purpose. We wouldn't be able to track recently used files and allow them to be opened from a menu, nor would we be able to to "Save" a file - it would always be "Save As", with no way for us to control the default directory (even if it was a file you just opened).



--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:

Sorry, you are right, I replied to hastily, I realized what you meant after I played with Slack a bit more.

 

Indeed, it behaves more like a browser, for example it saves files to a Downloads folder.

 

Well, In this case I will wait to see what the next versions bring.

 

I still don’t like this, but now I understand why it was done like this.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 17:15
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

 

 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:06 PM, vnicolici <[hidden email]> wrote:

You said “As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari).”

 

I use Slack and it is also based on webkit, and it uses the native file dialog for file uploads.

 

If you selectively edit what I wrote, it'll always be easy to argue a point with me. Please read the paragraph in full:

 

As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari). Those security measures minimise the use of the dialogues to downloading files and form based uploads, which would make use of them very cumbersome for this purpose. We wouldn't be able to track recently used files and allow them to be opened from a menu, nor would we be able to to "Save" a file - it would always be "Save As", with no way for us to control the default directory (even if it was a file you just opened).

 

 

--

Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

 

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

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Re: [pgadmin-support] pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

От
vnicolici
Дата:

I stayed on the old native tools until now. I just tried the 1.2 version of  pgAdmin 4 and it is better. It remembers the last directory in the file open dialog, and you can edit the file path manually.

 

But it still has problems. First of all, I navigated to the directory with my SQL files. I switched to the list view and tried to sort the files by time. It didn’t work. And the directories are mixed with the files in the list, not shown at the top of the list.

 

Then I tried to double click on a file to open it. It didn’t work. I had to click the “select” button to open it. Pressing “select” without selecting a file first results in the dialog closing and an error: “No such file or directory”.

 

Then I tried to run the SQL file. It didn’t work because it seems the application can’t handle UTF files that begin with a BOM (byte order mark, files saved from the previous pgAdmin versions, nothing fancy).

 

The BOM is included in the text editor as a red dot at the beginning of the SQL:

 

 

and it causes the queries to fail with errors:

 

 

Not being to open properly files created by the previous version is not what I expected.

 

And in default view of the file list file / directory names are truncated if they have more than about 10 characters:

 

Compare that to how much text a similar icon view shows in the native dialog:

 

https://vgy.me/WHe9Iz.png

 

Then, hovering over the icons shows a tooltip with the full name, but only sometimes. If you view a tooltip on one file and move to another truncated file to view the tooltip it won’t show a tooltip and the previous tooltip will remain visible.

 

Also hovering over files is inconsistent: Hovering over the file name (sometimes) shows the name. Hovering over the file icon in icon view (grid view as you call it) doesn’t ever show anything. Hovering over the file icon in details view (table view as you call it) shows the full file path, and hovering over the name shows just the file name. And all the tooltips are URL encoded (spaces as %20 colons, backslash as %5C, etc.).

 

I’ll try to use it for a few more days and see if I can adapt to it in its current state.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 17:29
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

Sorry, you are right, I replied to hastily, I realized what you meant after I played with Slack a bit more.

 

Indeed, it behaves more like a browser, for example it saves files to a Downloads folder.

 

Well, In this case I will wait to see what the next versions bring.

 

I still don’t like this, but now I understand why it was done like this.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 17:15
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

 

 

 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:06 PM, vnicolici <[hidden email]> wrote:

You said “As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari).”

 

I use Slack and it is also based on webkit, and it uses the native file dialog for file uploads.

 

If you selectively edit what I wrote, it'll always be easy to argue a point with me. Please read the paragraph in full:

 

As I've pointed out a number of times now, it is not possible to use the native file dialogues because of the security imposed by webkit (the same browser engine as is used in Chrome and Safari). Those security measures minimise the use of the dialogues to downloading files and form based uploads, which would make use of them very cumbersome for this purpose. We wouldn't be able to track recently used files and allow them to be opened from a menu, nor would we be able to to "Save" a file - it would always be "Save As", with no way for us to control the default directory (even if it was a file you just opened).

 

 

--

Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

 

cid:image001.png@01D23077.AEEF8560

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pgAdmin 3 is still better than pgAdmin 4

От
Vladimir Nicolici
Дата:

I've just bought a new computer, and as an exercise I tried to give pgAdmin 4 another chance, because my previous attempts frustrated me immensely after just a few minutes of use and made me go back to pgAdmin 3. My last attempt was on pgAdmin 4 version 1.2, my current attempt was on version 1.5. My computer has the latest Windows 10, x64, i7 7700K CPU, 32 GB RAM, running pgAdmin 4 standalone.

 

So, after forcing myself to use pgAdmin 4 for 2 days, things are not looking good and I will go back to pgAdmin 3 again. Today pgAdmin 4 is kind of usable, for simple stuff. But really, it hurts productivity so much compared to pgAdmin 3, and feels so awkward and slow, that I won't keep punishing myself by using it. Under these circumstances, I don't know how you can say stuff like this on your site: "WARNING: pgAdmin 3 is no longer supported. It is recommended that you download pgAdmin 4 instead."

 

And now the issues I encountered while using pgAdmin 4:

 

General:

         - On the plus side, the Windows app UI is actually a browser control, so the Control + "+" and Control + "-" keyboard shortcuts work to bring the UI to a decent size on High DPI displays just like in browsers. But it would be nice if the app would respect the Windows scaling settings automatically, because at the default scale the UI elements are way too small and my 175% scaling setting I configured in Windows for my display is ignored. If that's not possible, the browser scaling controls should be made available in the settings or a menu, I doubt many people would think of using browser keyboard shortcuts to zoom.

         - The app doesn't save empty passwords and keeps asking for them.

         - The app seems use a lot of CPU even when doing nothing, it constantly uses 7% CPU while connected to 4 databases. Most likely caused by the dashboard feature.

         - There is no way to disable the dashboard feature.

         - The app feels extremely slow and unresponsive, even with Intel i7 7700K CPU running at 4.2 GHz. I mean I just opening the app takes over 20 seconds. Without connecting to a database. pgAdmin 3 on my old laptop starts in just 3 seconds.

 

Query window:

         - Control + S in a query window doesn't save modified files.

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level truncates the result header:

                  http://i.imgur.com/UyLZDIf.png

         - there is no list of recently used SQL files

         - some of the commented SQL text is not grayed out, it grays it out only for the first few lines

         - The file picker is still not ideal:

                  - truncating file names after just a few characters,

                  - showing HTTP encoding like %20 for spaces in the hover tooltips

                  - mixing directories with the rest of the files in the item list.

                  - you can't change sorting by clicking on columns

                  - double clicking on a file doesn't open it

                  - it doesn't remember the view settings (table view) after you close it and open it again.

         - You can't switch to another server/database in a query window

         - The copy and download as CSV buttons don't seem to do anything, even after you select records in the result table.

         - The is no timer shown during query execution.

         - Query tab headers don't show any indication that something is executing, so you have to check each tab individually from time to time.

         - Query tab headers don't show the database name

         - no confirmation asked when closing unsaved tabs

         - no option to copy cell/row/table contents in the query results by right clicking on them with a context menu.

 

Dashboard:

         - Doesn't show session SQL, query start, transaction start, last state change, blocking sessions

         - Can't copy SQL from a session

         - Can't copy the session list

         - Can't cancel a query/kill a session

 

Browser:

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level results in blurred icons in the browser tree:

                  http://i.imgur.com/EKKYqU8.png

 

To conclude, sure, pgAdmin 3 is not perfect, it has a variety of issues too. And while some of the issues from pgAdmin 3 are fixed by pgAdmin 4, the regressions far overweigh any advantages at this point.

 

When deciding to make revolutionary changes, instead of evolutionary changes, you should always keep in mind the Superiority story by Arthur C. Clarke:

 

http://www.mayofamily.com/RLM/txt_Clarke_Superiority.html

 

The ultimate cause of our failure was a simple one: despite all statements to the contrary, it was not due to lack of bravery on the part of our men, or to any fault of the Fleet's. We were defeated by one thing only - by the inferior science of our enemies. I repeat - by the inferior science of our enemies.

 

Thanks,

Vlad

Re: pgAdmin 3 is still better than pgAdmin 4

От
Dave Page
Дата:
Hi

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Vladimir Nicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:

I've just bought a new computer, and as an exercise I tried to give pgAdmin 4 another chance, because my previous attempts frustrated me immensely after just a few minutes of use and made me go back to pgAdmin 3. My last attempt was on pgAdmin 4 version 1.2, my current attempt was on version 1.5. My computer has the latest Windows 10, x64, i7 7700K CPU, 32 GB RAM, running pgAdmin 4 standalone.

 

So, after forcing myself to use pgAdmin 4 for 2 days, things are not looking good and I will go back to pgAdmin 3 again. Today pgAdmin 4 is kind of usable, for simple stuff. But really, it hurts productivity so much compared to pgAdmin 3, and feels so awkward and slow, that I won't keep punishing myself by using it. Under these circumstances,


That is a known issue with QtWebKit and QtWebEngine on Windows. We're in the process of implementing a number of changes to improve matters by further optimising our own code, and have teams at both EDB and Pivotal working on alternatives to the offending Qt code
 

I don't know how you can say stuff like this on your site: "WARNING: pgAdmin 3 is no longer supported. It is recommended that you download pgAdmin 4 instead."


pgAdmin 3 was written and maintained by volunteers. They are free to work on what they want, and are no longer focussing on pgAdmin 3, as it's issues are essentially a lost cause.
 

 

And now the issues I encountered while using pgAdmin 4:

 

General:

         - On the plus side, the Windows app UI is actually a browser control, so the Control + "+" and Control + "-" keyboard shortcuts work to bring the UI to a decent size on High DPI displays just like in browsers. But it would be nice if the app would respect the Windows scaling settings automatically, because at the default scale the UI elements are way too small and my 175% scaling setting I configured in Windows for my display is ignored. If that's not possible, the browser scaling controls should be made available in the settings or a menu, I doubt many people would think of using browser keyboard shortcuts to zoom.


Those shortcuts are documented. Unfortunately the underlying rendering engine (which we don't maintain) doesn't honour the system settings. The replacement might, though performance is the priority there.
 

         - The app doesn't save empty passwords and keeps asking for them.


I use it constantly, and do not see this issue. Can you come up with a test case? I wonder if there's an encoding issue with your password that I do not see.
 

         - The app seems use a lot of CPU even when doing nothing, it constantly uses 7% CPU while connected to 4 databases. Most likely caused by the dashboard feature.


 

         - There is no way to disable the dashboard feature.


That should be possible in 1.6. We have a patch, but we're working out a bug it introduces.
 

         - The app feels extremely slow and unresponsive, even with Intel i7 7700K CPU running at 4.2 GHz. I mean I just opening the app takes over 20 seconds. Without connecting to a database. pgAdmin 3 on my old laptop starts in just 3 seconds.


pgAdmin 4 is a little slower to start up than pgAdmin 3 due to it's architecture. However, on Mac/Linux, it's such a small difference that it's a non-issue. On Windows, the issue is being worked on as described above.
 

 

Query window:

         - Control + S in a query window doesn't save modified files.


Please log a feature request for this: https://redmine.postgresql.org/projects/pgadmin4/issues/new
 

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level truncates the result header:

                  http://i.imgur.com/UyLZDIf.png


That is fixed as part of a major update to the query tool in 1.6.
 

         - there is no list of recently used SQL files


Please log a feature request for this. It seems like something that could be included in the new History panel.
 

         - some of the commented SQL text is not grayed out, it grays it out only for the first few lines


Can you provide a test case? I'm not sure what you mean.
 

         - The file picker is still not ideal:

                  - truncating file names after just a few characters,

                  - showing HTTP encoding like %20 for spaces in the hover tooltips

                  - mixing directories with the rest of the files in the item list.

                  - you can't change sorting by clicking on columns

                  - double clicking on a file doesn't open it


Please log a feature request for these changes (bugs, for the first two)
 

                  - it doesn't remember the view settings (table view) after you close it and open it again.


There's already a ticket for that.
 

         - You can't switch to another server/database in a query window



Please log a feature request for this.
 

         - The copy and download as CSV buttons don't seem to do anything, even after you select records in the result table.


Those issues have been resolved for 1.6.
 

         - The is no timer shown during query execution.

         - Query tab headers don't show any indication that something is executing, so you have to check each tab individually from time to time.


Please log a feature request for these.
 

         - Query tab headers don't show the database name


That has been changed for 1.6.
 

         - no confirmation asked when closing unsaved tabs


That has always been there I think - at least since 1.1 or so. It's certainly there now.
 

         - no option to copy cell/row/table contents in the query results by right clicking on them with a context menu.


No, there's no query tool context menu. I'm not sure we want/need one, but you're welcome to request it for further consideration.
 

 

Dashboard:

         - Doesn't show session SQL, query start, transaction start, last state change, blocking sessions

         - Can't copy SQL from a session

         - Can't copy the session list

         - Can't cancel a query/kill a session


Those seem like valid feature requests.
 

 

Browser:

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level results in blurred icons in the browser tree:

                  http://i.imgur.com/EKKYqU8.png


There are new hi-dpi icons being designed right now. I just received the first design, and expect them to be posted to pgadmin-hackers for comments shortly.
 

 

To conclude, sure, pgAdmin 3 is not perfect, it has a variety of issues too. And while some of the issues from pgAdmin 3 are fixed by pgAdmin 4, the regressions far overweigh any advantages at this point.


For myself, and many (but certainly not all) users I know of, I disagree. pgAdmin 4 is *much* more stable than pgAdmin 3 ever was, and as a Mac user I'm afraid I don't get hit by the performance issue (but fully acknowledge it's an issue for Windows users). Whilst the issues you raise above are certainly all valid requests and may be useful to you, they are, for the most part, not things that affect everyone.

pgAdmin is a complex piece of software, and a major part of the rewrite project was intended to cut down on features that weren't really used. Some of those things we got wrong, and are working to rectify issues as users report them. We did have a number of beta releases of pgAdmin, and unfortunately some of the changes we made that we didn't realise affected some users, were not all reported in that time.

Moving forwards we're addressing obvious issues of course (there are already nearly 80 changes in 1.6 - including a change to the query tool that makes it orders of magnitude faster than pgAdmin III with large data sets, and the ability to use un-dockable tabs in desktop mode so you can use multiple monitors). More subtle issues and complex UI changes are being addressed in a much more user-focussed manner. One of the huge advantages of the technology change is that we now have significant backing from at least two major companies who are investing in pgAdmin - and that is allowing us to move forward in a much more structured and user-focussed way, rather than relying on the traditional open source "scratch your own itch" methods.

Thank you for the feedback.

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Re: pgAdmin 3 is still better than pgAdmin 4

От
Francis Fish
Дата:
I've stuck with Version 1.2 - it looks like the screen handling and scrolling was rewritten and is now unusable.


Thanks and Regards,

Francis

07764 225 942

Pharmarketeer is a registered company in England and Wales 06940361, registered office 64 Westbank Road, Birkenhead, Merseyside, CH42 7JP

"So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they are. The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and then you can improve. But it's the system you improve, not the people you beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the mist

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Vladimir Nicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:

I've just bought a new computer, and as an exercise I tried to give pgAdmin 4 another chance, because my previous attempts frustrated me immensely after just a few minutes of use and made me go back to pgAdmin 3. My last attempt was on pgAdmin 4 version 1.2, my current attempt was on version 1.5. My computer has the latest Windows 10, x64, i7 7700K CPU, 32 GB RAM, running pgAdmin 4 standalone.

 

So, after forcing myself to use pgAdmin 4 for 2 days, things are not looking good and I will go back to pgAdmin 3 again. Today pgAdmin 4 is kind of usable, for simple stuff. But really, it hurts productivity so much compared to pgAdmin 3, and feels so awkward and slow, that I won't keep punishing myself by using it. Under these circumstances, I don't know how you can say stuff like this on your site: "WARNING: pgAdmin 3 is no longer supported. It is recommended that you download pgAdmin 4 instead."

 

And now the issues I encountered while using pgAdmin 4:

 

General:

         - On the plus side, the Windows app UI is actually a browser control, so the Control + "+" and Control + "-" keyboard shortcuts work to bring the UI to a decent size on High DPI displays just like in browsers. But it would be nice if the app would respect the Windows scaling settings automatically, because at the default scale the UI elements are way too small and my 175% scaling setting I configured in Windows for my display is ignored. If that's not possible, the browser scaling controls should be made available in the settings or a menu, I doubt many people would think of using browser keyboard shortcuts to zoom.

         - The app doesn't save empty passwords and keeps asking for them.

         - The app seems use a lot of CPU even when doing nothing, it constantly uses 7% CPU while connected to 4 databases. Most likely caused by the dashboard feature.

         - There is no way to disable the dashboard feature.

         - The app feels extremely slow and unresponsive, even with Intel i7 7700K CPU running at 4.2 GHz. I mean I just opening the app takes over 20 seconds. Without connecting to a database. pgAdmin 3 on my old laptop starts in just 3 seconds.

 

Query window:

         - Control + S in a query window doesn't save modified files.

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level truncates the result header:

                  http://i.imgur.com/UyLZDIf.png

         - there is no list of recently used SQL files

         - some of the commented SQL text is not grayed out, it grays it out only for the first few lines

         - The file picker is still not ideal:

                  - truncating file names after just a few characters,

                  - showing HTTP encoding like %20 for spaces in the hover tooltips

                  - mixing directories with the rest of the files in the item list.

                  - you can't change sorting by clicking on columns

                  - double clicking on a file doesn't open it

                  - it doesn't remember the view settings (table view) after you close it and open it again.

         - You can't switch to another server/database in a query window

         - The copy and download as CSV buttons don't seem to do anything, even after you select records in the result table.

         - The is no timer shown during query execution.

         - Query tab headers don't show any indication that something is executing, so you have to check each tab individually from time to time.

         - Query tab headers don't show the database name

         - no confirmation asked when closing unsaved tabs

         - no option to copy cell/row/table contents in the query results by right clicking on them with a context menu.

 

Dashboard:

         - Doesn't show session SQL, query start, transaction start, last state change, blocking sessions

         - Can't copy SQL from a session

         - Can't copy the session list

         - Can't cancel a query/kill a session

 

Browser:

         - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level results in blurred icons in the browser tree:

                  http://i.imgur.com/EKKYqU8.png

 

To conclude, sure, pgAdmin 3 is not perfect, it has a variety of issues too. And while some of the issues from pgAdmin 3 are fixed by pgAdmin 4, the regressions far overweigh any advantages at this point.

 

When deciding to make revolutionary changes, instead of evolutionary changes, you should always keep in mind the Superiority story by Arthur C. Clarke:

 

http://www.mayofamily.com/RLM/txt_Clarke_Superiority.html

 

The ultimate cause of our failure was a simple one: despite all statements to the contrary, it was not due to lack of bravery on the part of our men, or to any fault of the Fleet's. We were defeated by one thing only - by the inferior science of our enemies. I repeat - by the inferior science of our enemies.

 

Thanks,

Vlad