Обсуждение: Re: Path to PostgreSQL portabiliy
Joel Burton wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: markw@snoopy.mohawksoft.com [mailto:markw@snoopy.mohawksoft.com]On > > Behalf Of mlw > > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 11:47 AM > > To: Joel Burton > > Cc: Tom Lane; PostgreSQL-development; Jan Wieck; Marc G. Fournier; Dann > > Corbit > > Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Path to PostgreSQL portabiliy > > > > > > As I think of it, I don't think a cygwin PostgreSQL will *ever* be taken > > seriously by the Windows crowd, just as a Wine/CorelDraw wasn't > > taken seriously > > by the Linux crowd. > > > > If we want to support Windows, we should support Windows. Cygwin > > will not be > > accepted by any serious IT team. > > Well, I think it's a bit different than Wine, a _huge_ binary trying to > emulate every call of an operating system (and making things more than a bit > slower). > > If there is a stripped down, out-of-the-box install that includes cygwin, do > you think that will turn people off? It would be essentially invisible. I was thinking about this earlier, one problem with cygwin is it doesn't act like a Windows program, it requires its own file layout. Cygwin's purpose in life to to allow basically UNIX centric people to be comfortable on Windows. It, by no means, is anything that a Windows centric person wants to deal with, or would deal with if there were an alternative.
If you have a Win32 workstation... Look here: http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/ Then click on the thing that says "Install Now" (Looks like a black "C" with a green tongue). after a small boatload of clicks, you will see a Window labeled "Cygwin Setup". Under +All you will find...+Admin+Archive+Base+Database Click on the plus sign next to the Database category. You will see:7.2.1-1 [options] [Bin] [Src] [Package] posgresql: PostgreSQL Data Base Management System In other words, they already have an automated installation procedure for PostgreSQL if you are using Cygwin.
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Dann Corbit > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:31 PM > To: PostgreSQL-development > Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Path to PostgreSQL portabiliy > > > If you have a Win32 workstation... > Look here: > http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/ > > Then click on the thing that says "Install Now" (Looks like a black "C" > with a green tongue). > > after a small boatload of clicks, you will see a Window labeled "Cygwin > Setup". > Under +All > you will find... > +Admin > +Archive > +Base > +Database > > Click on the plus sign next to the Database category. > > You will see: > 7.2.1-1 [options] [Bin] [Src] [Package] posgresql: PostgreSQL > Data Base Management System > > In other words, they already have an automated installation procedure > for PostgreSQL if you are using Cygwin. Yes, but you need to choose other packages in addition to PG to get it to work, and which ones you need to choose aren't obvious. I think, at least, we could provide some documentation on a straightforward PG cygwin install.
> > In other words, they already have an automated installation procedure > > for PostgreSQL if you are using Cygwin. > > Yes, but you need to choose other packages in addition to PG to get it to > work, and which ones you need to choose aren't obvious. I think, at least, > we could provide some documentation on a straightforward PG > cygwin install. I think a full, proper native version of Postgres for windows that can be compiled and distributed as a binary with installer is essential. Just look at how many people use MySQL for windows. We should just rip out our own IPC code and replace it with the APR... Chris
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dann Corbit [mailto:DCorbit@connx.com] > Sent: 09 May 2002 00:31 > To: PostgreSQL-development > Subject: Re: Path to PostgreSQL portabiliy > > > If you have a Win32 workstation... > Look here: > http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/ > > Then click on the thing that says "Install Now" (Looks like a > black "C" with a green tongue). > > after a small boatload of clicks, you will see a Window > labeled "Cygwin Setup". Under +All you will find... > +Admin > +Archive > +Base > +Database > > Click on the plus sign next to the Database category. > > You will see: > 7.2.1-1 [options] [Bin] [Src] [Package] posgresql: > PostgreSQL Data Base Management System > > In other words, they already have an automated installation > procedure for PostgreSQL if you are using Cygwin. The last time I tried that (coupla months ago) it listed the versions of the packages in reverse order, so I spent about 15 very tedious minutes making sure that I have the latest version of all the packages I wanted selected. Then I spent an hour or 2 battling with ntsec and initdb on my laptop (logged onto, but disconnected from the domain). After that I gave up and went back to my very old release that works fine. The point I'm trying to make is that if I, as a not inexperienced sysadmin of both Windows and Unix systems (not to mention PostgreSQL which I like to think I'm fairly familiar with) has this trouble, what impression is that going to give the first time user, who's probably going to go elsewhere at the first sign of trouble? Regards, Dave.
Le Jeudi 9 Mai 2002 01:30, Dann Corbit a écrit : > In other words, they already have an automated installation procedure > for PostgreSQL if you are using Cygwin. Cygwin installer does not handle package dependencies. Therefore: 1) users install all packages at once. 2) upgrading becomes a mess . 3) sofware may conflict. Example : Cygwin Perl and native Perl, Cygwin Apache and native Apache. IMHO the problem stems from the lack of package installers the Windows world. Here is the proposed plan, which boils down to port Debian to Cygwin/Windows: 1) Description of W32/Debian porting - Port Debian dpkg to native Windows and compile it using mingw. This task has nearly been accomplished on http://debian-cygwin.sourceforge.net/bootstrap/. dpkg is a very powerfull package system comparable to RPM on Linux. I don't know if it is possible to compile dpkg natively under Windows using mingw. - Create W32/Debian packages providing mingw core executables and libraries. - Compile Cygwin.dll using mingw. This will enable the creation of a first W32/Debian Cygwin.dll package. This should be possible using MSYS-1.0.7 and MinGW-1.1. Again, Cygwin installer is messy, we should get rid of it. - Create W32/Debian packages providing Cygwin core packages. - At that point, we shoul be able to have our own Cygwin installer with dependency checking. There we go: This will allow to create further W32/Debian packages and tell wether they depend on Cygwin or not. For example, we may offer Perl with depency to Cygwin and another one with no depency (compiled with mingw). Another example is Apache : users may be interested in compiling the Cygwin version of Apache, but they might as well simply need to install the Windows native binary version. Also there are a bunch of Windows only programs. Example Dev-C++ or OpenOffice. We should also package them. - Create W32/Debian packages for GUI environnement (Xfree / qt2 / KDE2 / Gnome). Porting has already been accomplised on Cygwin. Even KDE3 is on the way. See http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/. User will be able to open a KDE window and execute KDE applications without hastle. This will allow us to offer popular developement environments (ex: KDevelop). 2) GUI installer W32/Debian installation should be performed within a single GUI. The installation program will give access to all W32/Debian packages at once. Packages will be available on Debian mirrors. Basically, there will be two kinds of packages : - native Windows software (native PHP + apache, native python, native Dev-C++, native OpenOffice1.0) with no depency to Cygwin. - Unix and Linux ports with Cygwin dependency (ex : PostgreSQL at first). All of them will be available within a SINGLE INSTALLER. So to me, the question is not "How to we port PostgreSQL to Windows" but rather "How do we package all important software needed", including Cygwin dependant software and Windows native software. If we could provide such an installer, this could well be the end of Microsoft hegemony. Microsoft is a dangerous company violating Human Rights. Don't spend too much time on porting PostgreSQL to native Windows. This can be done in two months. The amount of work needed to create a minimal W32/Debian distribution with an on-line installer is very little for a community like ours. This would change the history of Windows computing. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE