Обсуждение: PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list?
Folks, In expectation of a flood of new users, I'm thinking that we need a PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list. I'd like to shift some of them many platform-specific questions we will certainly get to a different list from NOVICE and GENERAL. -- -Josh Berkus "A developer of Very Little Brain" Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
need someone to act as moderator/owner of that list ... On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > Folks, > > In expectation of a flood of new users, I'm thinking that we need a > PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list. I'd like to shift some of them many > platform-specific questions we will certainly get to a different list from > NOVICE and GENERAL. > > -- > -Josh Berkus > "A developer of Very Little Brain" > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Josh Berkus > Sent: 10 August 2004 19:59 > To: PostgreSQL www > Subject: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > Folks, > > In expectation of a flood of new users, I'm thinking that we need a > PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list. I'd like to shift some of them many > platform-specific questions we will certainly get to a > different list from NOVICE and GENERAL. Are you really expecting that many platform specific questions? With a separate list I can already see the confusion as users get bounced onto another list because their question is slightly more of a platform issue, or actually an SQL issue. Just my 0.02p Regards, Dave
Dave, > Are you really expecting that many platform specific questions? With a > separate list I can already see the confusion as users get bounced onto > another list because their question is slightly more of a platform > issue, or actually an SQL issue. So far, I'm seeing a lot of them. This could me because the Win port is still buggy, of course, but it might continue. Also, I *am* expecting the windows port to expand out active online community by at least 1000 subscribers, if not 5 times that. My experience with other projects (like OpenOffice.org) showed that when a mailing list gets too big (somewhere between 60 and 100 posts a day) it becomes prohibitive for the entry-level user as a support mechanism. Some people have yahoo accounts, you know? So it's as much wanting to have another list of any kind as having a windows-specific list. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Dave Page wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Josh Berkus > > Sent: 10 August 2004 19:59 > > To: PostgreSQL www > > Subject: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > > > Folks, > > > > In expectation of a flood of new users, I'm thinking that we need a > > PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list. I'd like to shift some of them many > > platform-specific questions we will certainly get to a > > different list from NOVICE and GENERAL. > > Are you really expecting that many platform specific questions? With a > separate list I can already see the confusion as users get bounced onto > another list because their question is slightly more of a platform > issue, or actually an SQL issue. Yea, I am hoping novice will be enough, and win32-dev for platform stuff. Hard to say, though, because cygwin still has lots of cygwin-specific issues come up. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
> -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh@agliodbs.com] > Sent: 11 August 2004 17:04 > To: Dave Page; PostgreSQL www > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > Dave, > > > Are you really expecting that many platform specific > questions? With a > > separate list I can already see the confusion as users get bounced > > onto another list because their question is slightly more of a > > platform issue, or actually an SQL issue. > > So far, I'm seeing a lot of them. This could me because the > Win port is > still buggy, of course, but it might continue. I'm seeing quite a few, but they are pretty much all installer and a few initdb issues, all of which we will hopefully iron out. I'm not on -general or -novice though, so I may be missing a whole heap of traffic that you're not. > Also, I *am* expecting the windows port to expand out active > online community by at least 1000 subscribers, if not 5 times > that. My experience with other projects (like > OpenOffice.org) showed that when a mailing list gets too big > (somewhere between 60 and 100 posts a day) it becomes > prohibitive for the > entry-level user as a support mechanism. Some people have > yahoo accounts, > you know? That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). Is there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them if we find there are lots of platform specific problems though. > > So it's as much wanting to have another list of any kind as > having a windows-specific list. Yup :-) Regards, Dave.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us] > Sent: 11 August 2004 16:57 > To: Dave Page > Cc: josh@agliodbs.com; PostgreSQL www > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > > Yea, I am hoping novice will be enough, and win32-dev for > platform stuff. Hard to say, though, because cygwin still > has lots of cygwin-specific issues come up. Those are often unix/cygwin things confusing Windows users (or IPC Dameon related). The first should go away with the installer, and the seconds doesn't apply any more anyway. Or so I hope anyway :-) Regards, Dave.
On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 12:11, Dave Page wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh@agliodbs.com]
> > Also, I *am* expecting the windows port to expand out active
> > online community by at least 1000 subscribers, if not 5 times
> > that. My experience with other projects (like
> > OpenOffice.org) showed that when a mailing list gets too big
> > (somewhere between 60 and 100 posts a day) it becomes
> > prohibitive for the
> > entry-level user as a support mechanism. Some people have
> > yahoo accounts,
> > you know?
>
> That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). Is
> there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm
> opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group
> just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them if
> we find there are lots of platform specific problems though.
>
Josh, so you see the windows list duplicating ground from some of the
other lists? Ie. the description of the windows list would be inclusive
of "admin"-ing on windows, "performance" on windows, and "general" usage
problems on windows?
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Dave, > That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). Is > there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm > opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group > just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them if > we find there are lots of platform specific problems though. Well, unfortunately, at least 70% of the Windows users can be counted on not to differentiate platform-specific issues from general ones. And given the flakyness of the platform, I expect there to be continuous issues. Also, I'd really rather not have a 25-post thread on PGSQL-SQL discussing how XP-SP3 breaks PostgreSQL. While there are other possible lists we could add, the advantage of PGSQL-WINDOWS is that it would attract a substantial portion of the new users, which, for example, a list named PGSQL-INSTALL might not. On a completely different topic, who's in charge of ODBC these days? I'm getting breakage reports on IRC. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Robert,
> Josh, so you see the windows list duplicating ground from some of the
> other lists? Ie. the description of the windows list would be inclusive
> of "admin"-ing on windows, "performance" on windows, and "general" usage
> problems on windows?
Yes. I especially want to give the Win users someplace other than GENERAL to
go; I've unsubbed from that list due to traffic.
--
-Josh Berkus
______AGLIO DATABASE SOLUTIONS___________________________
Josh Berkus
Enterprise vertical business josh@agliodbs.com
and data analysis solutions (415) 752-2500
and database optimization fax 752-2387
utilizing Open Source technology San Francisco
Josh Berkus wrote: > On a completely different topic, who's in charge of ODBC these days? > I'm getting breakage reports on IRC. pgsql-odbc@postgresql.org, as usual, with Dave Page and myself currently doing most of the maintenance work. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
Josh Berkus wrote: > On a completely different topic, who's in charge of ODBC these days? I'm > getting breakage reports on IRC. > Dave Page is leading it and has gotten a few volunteers. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes:
> Yes. I especially want to give the Win users someplace other than
> GENERAL to go; I've unsubbed from that list due to traffic.
I've got mixed feelings about this. I agree with the fear that
Windows-related messages might drown out the rest of the traffic ...
but that may happen *anyway*.
Based on what I've seen (and I do sub to nearly all the pg lists),
we have too many lists, not too few. People post into the wrong
list all the time, because they don't know about or can't be bothered
to subscribe to the one that their message would be most on-topic for.
Or maybe they just don't know enough to realize that their problem
relates to a particular area. It's particularly bad for bug reports;
people will send messages describing bugs or possible bugs almost
anyplace.
I like the idea of trying to draw off Windows-specific traffic into
its own list, but I am worried that we will lose on both ends. A
pgsql-windows list might end up becoming the default list for all sorts
of messages from Windows users, including things that really should be
on other lists. And on top of that, if we get the kind of influx of
new users that people seem to be bracing for, we're going to have
significant levels of Windows-specific messages on all the other lists
too. It's hardly likely that Windows users will be better at targeting
their messages than the existing user base.
So I'm not sure whether to vote for a new list or not. It might do what
Josh is hoping for, or it might just contribute to the mess.
I'm kind of inclined to wait and see. We can certainly add a list in
a few months if traffic levels rise to the point where we have to.
Perhaps they won't.
regards, tom lane
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > Dave, > >> That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). Is >> there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm >> opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group >> just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them if >> we find there are lots of platform specific problems though. > > Well, unfortunately, at least 70% of the Windows users can be counted on not > to differentiate platform-specific issues from general ones. And given the > flakyness of the platform, I expect there to be continuous issues. Also, I'd > really rather not have a 25-post thread on PGSQL-SQL discussing how XP-SP3 > breaks PostgreSQL. > > While there are other possible lists we could add, the advantage of > PGSQL-WINDOWS is that it would attract a substantial portion of the new > users, which, for example, a list named PGSQL-INSTALL might not. I'm not ant-pgsql-windows, but I fear that the one thing you are trying to avoid is going to happen if we do create it ... namely, all new windows users will subscribe to that one list and post everything under the sun to it, making that one list pretty useless :( If anything, altho it might be long, let's do something like: pgsql-general-windows pgsql-novice-windows pgsql-admin-windows pgsql-sql-windows or something like that ... so that its not just the one list ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: > Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes: >> Yes. I especially want to give the Win users someplace other than >> GENERAL to go; I've unsubbed from that list due to traffic. > > I've got mixed feelings about this. I agree with the fear that > Windows-related messages might drown out the rest of the traffic ... > but that may happen *anyway*. > > Based on what I've seen (and I do sub to nearly all the pg lists), > we have too many lists, not too few. People post into the wrong > list all the time, because they don't know about or can't be bothered > to subscribe to the one that their message would be most on-topic for. > Or maybe they just don't know enough to realize that their problem > relates to a particular area. It's particularly bad for bug reports; > people will send messages describing bugs or possible bugs almost > anyplace. 'k ... as a tangent to this thread, should we look at cleaning up / removing some lists? Merging a couple or something like that? I don't find any of them get a horrendously amount of traffic compared to other lists I'm on, but I use a threaded mail reader too, which helps reduce the index size ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Don't ya think pgsql-sql-windows is a bit overkill? It's not like pg's behavior re sql changes on windows. Gavin Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> Dave, >> >>> That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). Is >>> there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm >>> opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group >>> just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them if >>> we find there are lots of platform specific problems though. >> >> >> Well, unfortunately, at least 70% of the Windows users can be counted >> on not >> to differentiate platform-specific issues from general ones. And >> given the >> flakyness of the platform, I expect there to be continuous issues. >> Also, I'd >> really rather not have a 25-post thread on PGSQL-SQL discussing how >> XP-SP3 >> breaks PostgreSQL. >> >> While there are other possible lists we could add, the advantage of >> PGSQL-WINDOWS is that it would attract a substantial portion of the new >> users, which, for example, a list named PGSQL-INSTALL might not. > > > I'm not ant-pgsql-windows, but I fear that the one thing you are > trying to avoid is going to happen if we do create it ... namely, all > new windows users will subscribe to that one list and post everything > under the sun to it, making that one list pretty useless :( > > If anything, altho it might be long, let's do something like: > > pgsql-general-windows > pgsql-novice-windows > pgsql-admin-windows > pgsql-sql-windows > > or something like that ... so that its not just the one list ... > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services > (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: > 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if > your > joining column's datatypes do not match
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Gavin M. Roy wrote: > Don't ya think pgsql-sql-windows is a bit overkill? It's not like pg's > behavior re sql changes on windows. hey, I'm just throwing out suggestions :) and .. agreed, that one would be overkill ... > > Gavin > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: >> >>> Dave, >>> >>>> That's a different issue altogether though (perfectly valid though). >>>> Is >>>> there a more appropriate way to split the existing groups perhaps? I'm >>>> opposed to shifting the windows users onto a platform specific group >>>> just because there's a lot of them. I'm not opposed to shifting them >>>> if >>>> we find there are lots of platform specific problems though. >>> >>> >>> Well, unfortunately, at least 70% of the Windows users can be counted on >>> not >>> to differentiate platform-specific issues from general ones. And given >>> the >>> flakyness of the platform, I expect there to be continuous issues. >>> Also, I'd >>> really rather not have a 25-post thread on PGSQL-SQL discussing how >>> XP-SP3 >>> breaks PostgreSQL. >>> >>> While there are other possible lists we could add, the advantage of >>> PGSQL-WINDOWS is that it would attract a substantial portion of the new >>> users, which, for example, a list named PGSQL-INSTALL might not. >> >> >> I'm not ant-pgsql-windows, but I fear that the one thing you are trying to >> avoid is going to happen if we do create it ... namely, all new windows >> users will subscribe to that one list and post everything under the sun to >> it, making that one list pretty useless :( >> >> If anything, altho it might be long, let's do something like: >> >> pgsql-general-windows >> pgsql-novice-windows >> pgsql-admin-windows >> pgsql-sql-windows >> >> or something like that ... so that its not just the one list ... >> >> ---- >> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services >> (http://www.hub.org) >> Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: >> 7615664 >> >> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your >> joining column's datatypes do not match > > > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh@agliodbs.com] > Sent: 11 August 2004 17:30 > To: Dave Page; PostgreSQL www > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > > Well, unfortunately, at least 70% of the Windows users can be > counted on not to differentiate platform-specific issues from > general ones. I think the same applies to many *nix users these days now that it's so easy to get a copy of Linux and give it a try. Mind you, I don't know that it would be 70% any more than you do ;-) > And given the flakyness of the platform, I > expect there to be continuous issues. Have you used any well admin'ed 2K/2K3 servers? I have roughly equal numbers of Linux and Windows 2K/2K3 servers here and get roughly equal reliability from both. I get far more hardware problems than OS, and they don't care what you're running. Windows may still be riddled with security holes, but it is pretty stable these days. > Also, I'd really > rather not have a 25-post thread on PGSQL-SQL discussing how XP-SP3 > breaks PostgreSQL. Nor would I want to see one in there about how ext-3 is horribly borked on Linux 2.6.66. I hardly think it's fair to assume that all Windows users are too stupid to post in the right place, but *nix users aren't. Even if it does look that way in the future, it may well just be because there end up being far more Windows users, but with a constant percentage of plonkers. I think I agree with Tom on this one - lets wait and see. It may be that a wholesale re-organisation of the lists will be the best option. Regards, dave.
Dave, > I think the same applies to many *nix users these days now that it's so > easy to get a copy of Linux and give it a try. Mind you, I don't know > that it would be 70% any more than you do ;-) Well, it's a very rough estimate. ;-) Based mostly on my clients who use Windows. > Have you used any well admin'ed 2K/2K3 servers? I have roughly equal > numbers of Linux and Windows 2K/2K3 servers here and get roughly equal > reliability from both. I get far more hardware problems than OS, and > they don't care what you're running. Windows may still be riddled with > security holes, but it is pretty stable these days. Yes, but unfortunately there are a great number of *badly* adminned Windows machines out there, and those are the ones I'm talking about. > Nor would I want to see one in there about how ext-3 is horribly borked > on Linux 2.6.66. Yeah, that belongs on -performance ;-) > I hardly think it's fair to assume that all Windows > users are too stupid to post in the right place, but *nix users aren't. Oh, I was basing my suggestions on the current number of Linux/BSD/OSX users we get who have no idea where to go and, for example, post basic SQL questions to -Hackers and connection problems to -sql. > Even if it does look that way in the future, it may well just be because > there end up being far more Windows users, but with a constant > percentage of plonkers. Yep. > I think I agree with Tom on this one - lets wait and see. It may be that > a wholesale re-organisation of the lists will be the best option. If that's the way you feel. However, I don't want this list to lose sight of the fact that *us* recieving 50-100 extra email/day on some list or another is a qualitatively different thing from a newbie signing up on NOVICE and immediately getting hit with 200 e-mails in the first 12 hours. You and I will wade through that amount of e-mail regardless, because we subscribe to most of the lists, but for a new user with a Yahoo account on dial-up, its a fundamentally different thing. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
> -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh@agliodbs.com] > Sent: 12 August 2004 17:38 > To: Dave Page; PostgreSQL www > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > If that's the way you feel. However, I don't want this list > to lose sight of > the fact that *us* recieving 50-100 extra email/day on some > list or another is a qualitatively different thing from a > newbie signing up on NOVICE and > immediately getting hit with 200 e-mails in the first 12 > hours. You and I > will wade through that amount of e-mail regardless, because > we subscribe to most of the lists, but for a new user with a > Yahoo account on dial-up, its a fundamentally different thing. I'm beginning to wonder about myself - I got another 100 between the office and home :-( Perhaps though, the answer is not in making the mailing lists handle the extra load, but preventing some of that load getting there in the first place. I know it's easy to say, but difficult to do given the workloads we all have, but if we can get some really easy to use, helpful, friendly cuddly and fluffy trouble shooting docs out there as the first things new users see, then just maybe we can prevent many of the faqs etc. even hitting the lists. Yeah, there will always be some that can't be bothered to read and learn themselves, but if we can somehow direct the newbie through the faqs/documentation *before* we tell them where the lists are and without making it annoyingly difficult to get there then just maybe... The problem is, how do we make them read stuff without, umm, making them read stuff? /D
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes:
> However, I don't want this list to lose sight of the fact that *us*
> recieving 50-100 extra email/day on some list or another is a
> qualitatively different thing from a newbie signing up on NOVICE and
> immediately getting hit with 200 e-mails in the first 12 hours.
I hear you, but is it going to help much to split -novice into -novice
and -novice-windows? If we get overwhelmed with new novices, they'll
all be in the latter list and they'll *still* have an unreasonable
amount of traffic. What's more, they won't be getting any help from the
not-quite-so-novice-anymore denizens of the older list.
I think Dave's probably got the right idea: what we really need to be
looking for is a way to shift some of the support load away from the
mailing lists entirely. We're all accustomed to mailing lists as The
Way To Have A Community, but there's a limit to how far the concept
will scale.
regards, tom lane
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Dave Page wrote: > The problem is, how do we make them read stuff without, umm, making them > read stuff? If someone wants to submit text changes for the 'welcome message' that is sent out when someone subscribes, maybe pointinng them to various sources of info, that might help ... ? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
On Thursday 12 August 2004 18:16, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Dave Page wrote:
> > The problem is, how do we make them read stuff without, umm, making them
> > read stuff?
>
> If someone wants to submit text changes for the 'welcome message' that is
> sent out when someone subscribes, maybe pointinng them to various sources
> of info, that might help ... ?
>
We don't currently have an FAQ for each list, maybe we should start with that
and mail that out whenever someone subscribes.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Better Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Treat [mailto:xzilla@users.sourceforge.net] > Sent: 13 August 2004 06:48 > To: Marc G. Fournier > Cc: Dave Page; Josh Berkus; PostgreSQL www > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] PGSQL-WINDOWS mailing list? > > On Thursday 12 August 2004 18:16, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Dave Page wrote: > > > The problem is, how do we make them read stuff without, > umm, making > > > them read stuff? > > > > If someone wants to submit text changes for the 'welcome > message' that > > is sent out when someone subscribes, maybe pointinng them > to various > > sources of info, that might help ... ? > > > > We don't currently have an FAQ for each list, maybe we should > start with that and mail that out whenever someone subscribes. Definitely not a bad idea to do anyway, but I'm thinking more along the lines of helping ppl before they even get to the lists. Regards, Dave.
On Aug 13, 2004, at 4:13 PM, Dave Page wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Treat [mailto:xzilla@users.sourceforge.net] >> >> We don't currently have an FAQ for each list, maybe we should >> start with that and mail that out whenever someone subscribes. > > Definitely not a bad idea to do anyway, but I'm thinking more along the > lines of helping ppl before they even get to the lists. Would it make sense to trim the faqs a bit? There's a lot of information in there, and people might be hesitant to dive into them. Of course, they *should* look at the faq, as there's a lot of good stuff in there, but then again, people should read the docs too. Also, if you subscribe via the web interface, there's a link to view the faq, even before you subscribe. However, there are currently no faqs for the lists. This is a pretty visible place where people have the opportunity to read the faq, and often they're joining the list because they have a question. Perhaps we could head them off a few questions there? Michael Glaesemann grzm myrealbox com
People, > > Definitely not a bad idea to do anyway, but I'm thinking more along the > > lines of helping ppl before they even get to the lists. Hmmmm ... I'm also thinking that we need an HTML PostgreSQL+Windows tutorial linked from the main page or at least the Documentation page. -- -Josh Berkus "A developer of Very Little Brain" Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Guys, > Definitely not a bad idea to do anyway, but I'm thinking more along the > lines of helping ppl before they even get to the lists. Unfortunately, I discussed the *best* way with Gavin Sherry yesterday -- which would be to have a "PostgreSQL on Windows" book. But that would have had to been started about 6 months ago. :-( Still, if anyone here knows anyone who can write such a book, I can get you published. Regarding Tom's comment, perhaps we should entertain the idea of Web Forums? For whatever reason, we found out at OOo that web forums (with enough speed, of course) hold up better under a load of 100 to 500 posts per day than mailing lists do, at least in terms of usability. One of the Perl people is working on a combo web forum/mailing list software, but unfortunately the project just started ... -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Right now, I think its pretty safe to say that things are looking like the release will be *at least* 2 months away .. do we have a TODO list of what should be done by then, in preparation? For instance, you mention below a Tutorial, but does one exist right now that can be linked in, or does one need to be created? On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > People, > >>> Definitely not a bad idea to do anyway, but I'm thinking more along the >>> lines of helping ppl before they even get to the lists. > > Hmmmm ... I'm also thinking that we need an HTML PostgreSQL+Windows tutorial > linked from the main page or at least the Documentation page. > > -- > -Josh Berkus > "A developer of Very Little Brain" > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco > > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> Right now, I think its pretty safe to say that things are looking like the
> release will be *at least* 2 months away .. do we have a TODO list of what
> should be done by then, in preparation? For instance, you mention below a
> Tutorial, but does one exist right now that can be linked in, or does one
> need to be created?
We have:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P O S T G R E S Q L
8 . 0 O P E N I T E M S
Current version at ftp://momjian.postgresql.org/pub/postgresql/open_items.
Changes
-------
* Win32
o binary version stamps
o signal safe socket handler
o query cancel in psql (?)
o Report correct errno codes from native Windows system calls
o Shorten timezone for %t log_line_prefix
o start pg_autovacuum easily
o fix pitr file copy syntax
* fix dbsize and oid2name for tablespaces
* allow libpq to check parameterized data types
* make pgxs install the default
* add xid to log_line_prefix for PITR
* add psql tab completion for tablespaces
* cleanup FRONTEND use in /port, malloc, elog
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> >> Right now, I think its pretty safe to say that things are looking like the >> release will be *at least* 2 months away .. do we have a TODO list of what >> should be done by then, in preparation? For instance, you mention below a >> Tutorial, but does one exist right now that can be linked in, or does one >> need to be created? > > We have: Oops, sorry, you mis-understood the question ... I was more looking at what the thread was talking about insofar as mailing lists, web sites, etc ... stuff from the support side, not the technical :) ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> 8 . 0 O P E N I T E M S
> o fix pitr file copy syntax
Isn't this done?
> * fix dbsize and oid2name for tablespaces
I thought you committed a dbsize patch already.
> * allow libpq to check parameterized data types
What is this?
Also, we have a number of unresolved pg_dump bugs (it's not improbable
that we might have to back out the patch to manage ownership via ALTER
OWNER) and I've been noticing quite a lot of Windows users reporting
that it can't recognize their timezone, which says that we're going to
need yet another re-think of that issue :-(
regards, tom lane
Tom Lane wrote:
> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > 8 . 0 O P E N I T E M S
>
> > o fix pitr file copy syntax
>
> Isn't this done?
Yep, fixed.
>
> > * fix dbsize and oid2name for tablespaces
>
> I thought you committed a dbsize patch already.
Yep, dbsize removed.
> > * allow libpq to check parameterized data types
>
> What is this?
Uh, that was related to Jan's thing about adding a libpq protocol
capability so libs can find the data type of prepared queries.
> Also, we have a number of unresolved pg_dump bugs (it's not improbable
> that we might have to back out the patch to manage ownership via ALTER
Yes, I am tracking those but am not sure how to even explain them.
> OWNER) and I've been noticing quite a lot of Windows users reporting
> that it can't recognize their timezone, which says that we're going to
> need yet another re-think of that issue :-(
Added:
o Fix users who's timezones are not recognized
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073