Обсуждение: Re: About pgAdmin III

-----Original Message-----
From: Dmitry A. Mordovin [mailto:l15e@mtx.ru]
Sent: 06 September 2003 21:00
To: dpage@pgadmin.org
Cc: poure@freesurf.fr; morpheus@themutual.net; pgadmin@pse-consulting.de; franklupo@pgadmin.org
Subject: About pgAdmin III

Hi Sirs

 

I am a simple user the pgAdmin application.

I have some new feature for you.

 

I spend many time for developing function in pgAdmin III. I think, if you will move “Definition” window from function properties to new window for developing (right click and set “Edit” near “Properties”), it will be better.

 - new Edit window is save last size.

 - window have a new button at bottom – “Apply” near “OK” and “Cancel”. Apply same OK, but not close window.

 - think, that is enough for many users to be happy.

 

If you see the purpose here, I was happy to help you.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Dmitry Mordovin

Matrix Telecom company.

 

Best regards

 

Dave Page wrote:

> Hi Dmitry,
> This is an enhancement I would like to see in pgAdmin III for function
> and view definitions.

Hi Dave, hi Dmitry,

I strongly disagree for several reasons.

IMHO the dialog can be resized large enough for view and function
editing, it's not so much space that's wasted compared to an edit only
window. If this is still felt too small, the function/view definition
exceeds the scope of the property dialog; use a script edited with the
query tool instead. Property dialogs are for ad-hoc work, not lengthy
development.

Additionally, popping up windows should be avoided as much as possible.
In this case, it would be even worse, because the window would be modal,
inhibiting any work in pgAdmin3. I accept this only if it's not
avoidable (table needs this for columns and constraints), and if the
work done in the modal window is completed quickly (which contradicts
the purpose of the discussed edit window).

Regards,
Andreas

> If you wish to work on this feature and submit a patch, please do so.
> It would be a good idea to subscribe to the
> pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org <mailto:pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org>
> list and announce what you are working on so that none of us duplicate
> your efforts.
> Please note that were are currently in beta so are only applying bug
> fixes at the moment, but can hold patches for applying later.
> Thank you for your email,
> Regards, Dave
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* Dmitry A. Mordovin [mailto:l15e@mtx.ru]
>     *Sent:* 06 September 2003 21:00
>     *To:* dpage@pgadmin.org
>     *Cc:* poure@freesurf.fr; morpheus@themutual.net;
>     pgadmin@pse-consulting.de; franklupo@pgadmin.org
>     *Subject:* About pgAdmin III
>
>     Hi Sirs
>
>     I am a simple user the pgAdmin application.
>
>     I have some new feature for you.
>
>     I spend many time for developing function in pgAdmin III. I think,
>     if you will move “Definition” window from function properties to
>     new window for developing (right click and set “Edit” near
>     “Properties”), it will be better.
>
>     - new Edit window is save last size.
>
>     - window have a new button at bottom – “Apply” near “OK” and
>     “Cancel”. Apply same OK, but not close window.
>
>     - think, that is enough for many users to be happy.
>
>     If you see the purpose here, I was happy to help you.
>
>     Thank you very much.
>
>     Dmitry Mordovin
>
>     Matrix Telecom company.
>
>     Best regards
>

Hi Andreas,

It's rumoured that Andreas Pflug once said:
>
> I strongly disagree for several reasons.
>
> IMHO the dialog can be resized large enough for view and function
> editing, it's not so much space that's wasted compared to an edit only
> window. If this is still felt too small, the function/view definition
> exceeds the scope of the property dialog; use a script edited with the
> query tool instead. Property dialogs are for ad-hoc work, not lengthy
> development.

So what you're saying is, if you want to develop complex views/functions,
don't use the nice tools we provide, do it the hard way? If so, then
you've completely missed the whole point of the pgAdmin project :-(
You should be able to edit any object through it's properties dialogue, no
matter how complex - you cannot start dismissing them because they become
too big - that's just ridiculous!!
The properties dialogues should all be a consistent size and shape (iirc,
you wrote some notes to this effect), and if more edit real estate is
required, then a popup editor seems the only sensible option - it's even
been on the pgAdmin II todo list for a year or more.
> Additionally, popping up windows should be avoided as much as possible.
>  In this case, it would be even worse, because the window would be
> modal,  inhibiting any work in pgAdmin3.

I agree that such a design needs careful thought. Ideally, a popup editor
will only make the parent dialogue modal. Perhaps this can be achieved by
disabling the controls on it until the editor is closed. Whatever, it will
need to be thought out well.
Regards, Dave.

Dave Page wrote:

>Hi Andreas,
>
>It's rumoured that Andreas Pflug once said:
>
>
>>I strongly disagree for several reasons.
>>
>>IMHO the dialog can be resized large enough for view and function
>>editing, it's not so much space that's wasted compared to an edit only
>>window. If this is still felt too small, the function/view definition
>>exceeds the scope of the property dialog; use a script edited with the
>>query tool instead. Property dialogs are for ad-hoc work, not lengthy
>>development.
>>
>>
>
>So what you're saying is, if you want to develop complex views/functions,
>don't use the nice tools we provide, do it the hard way? If so, then
>you've completely missed the whole point of the pgAdmin project :-(
>
What I say is that if view or function gets big, the wizard features
become minor. I use the property dialog to create a skeleton, and fill
it later in plain sql. The reengineered sql makes it quite easy...

>You should be able to edit any object through it's properties dialogue, no
>matter how complex - you cannot start dismissing them because they become
>too big - that's just ridiculous!!
>
Even a swiss army knife has more than one blade: different sizes for
different objects.

>The properties dialogues should all be a consistent size and shape (iirc,
>you wrote some notes to this effect), and if more edit real estate is
>required, then a popup editor seems the only sensible option - it's even
>been on the pgAdmin II todo list for a year or more.
>
So how big do you need the editing window?
I just checked under win32, I got 153x35 chars on the screen when
maximizing the function dialog, and 156x47 in the view definition, on a
1152x864 screen. Is this really too small? Then I'd advise to use a
4096x3072 screen, and a 4pt font....

I certainly won't agree to screw up the window handling for getting some
percent more usable screen size.

Regards,
Andreas