Обсуждение: Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items
> - Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during > vacuum. > If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you don't change the database layout during the dump. Andreas
ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote: > > > - Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during > > vacuum. > > > If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then > PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent > snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you > don't change the database layout during the dump. This is done. Vacuum doesn't lock entire database. But it acquires access exclusive lock over table being vacuumed and so delay all (even SELECT) concurrent query executions. Lock released after table vacuumed. Vadim
At 03:44 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: >ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote: >> If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then >> PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent >> snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you >> don't change the database layout during the dump. >This is done. You boys need to publicize this. This lacking has been one of the biggest arguments against using Postgres in any environment with 24-hr access, one example being the web... - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
Don Baccus wrote: > > At 03:44 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: > >ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote: > > >> If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then > >> PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent > >> snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you > >> don't change the database layout during the dump. > > >This is done. > > You boys need to publicize this. This lacking has been one of the > biggest arguments against using Postgres in any environment with > 24-hr access, one example being the web... We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way, so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming that it's known by all -:) Or you talk that this should be mentioned in announcement/release notes? May be... Though this is obvious feature of MVCC - consistency read without blocking writers. Vadim
> Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
> announcement/release notes?
I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...
- Thomas
--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California
At 10:11 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: >We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way, >so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming >that it's known by all -:) I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups, I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are three huge improvements for people building web sites. Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to know this. And the latest download executes my "group by" clauses rather than killing the backend, as I found out last night. I've just sped up a page that returns a bar graph of monthly data by an order of magnitude, woo-hoo! Before I was forced to do a separate select for each month (against about 100,000 records, boo-hiss), now one nice select grouping data by month just like real databases let me do, I'm happy! - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
> > > - Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during > > vacuum. > > > If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then > PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent > snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you > don't change the database layout during the dump. Excellent point. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
> At 10:11 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: > > >We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way, > >so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming > >that it's known by all -:) > > I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups, > I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very > negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing > of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad > ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are > three huge improvements for people building web sites. > Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to > know this. > > And the latest download executes my "group by" clauses rather > than killing the backend, as I found out last night. I've > just sped up a page that returns a bar graph of monthly > data by an order of magnitude, woo-hoo! Before I was > forced to do a separate select for each month (against > about 100,000 records, boo-hiss), now one nice select > grouping data by month just like real databases let me > do, I'm happy! We really don't have access to web admin channels except through our mailing list and software lists. You need to get the word out. We addressed these issues escecially for web/high traffic users. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
> > Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
> > announcement/release notes?
>
> I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
> I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
> I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...
Added to release notes:
Another big benefit of MVCC is that <application>pg_dump</application> can now generate consistent backups
oflive, active databases, without blocking active transactions.
Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:
pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)
-- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610)
853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
At 12:25 PM 6/8/99 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: >We really don't have access to web admin channels except through our >mailing list and software lists. You need to get the word out. We >addressed these issues escecially for web/high traffic users. I have been, quietly, to people I know. I gave up on 6.4.2 for my particular use and had told folks that, and have now told the same suite of folks that 6.5 appears to be a vast improvement for this environment, at least for modest web/db projects. Postgres still doesn't have anywhere near the scalability of, say, Oracle and I'm not certain that should be the goal. It's far simpler to administer and install largely for this very reason...and that's a very good thing for folks wanting to do modest sites. Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to photography, I'm afraid! I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it were available... - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
Don Baccus wrote: > > Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered > by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come > up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to > photography, I'm afraid! > > I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it > were available... I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers? Vadim P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>
Don Baccus wrote: > > Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered > by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come > up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to > photography, I'm afraid! > > I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it > were available... I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers? Vadim P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>
Вложения
At 01:10 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: >I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such >things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers? Nice! I missed this when you posted it, there's been a lot of traffic on the list with y'all getting ready for release. - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
Don Baccus wrote: > > At 01:10 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: > > >I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such > >things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers? > > Nice! I missed this when you posted it, there's been a lot > of traffic on the list with y'all getting ready for release. This was posted ~ 6 monthes ago -:) Vadim
On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 07:32:41AM -0700, Don Baccus wrote: > I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups, > I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very > negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing > of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad > ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are > three huge improvements for people building web sites. > Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to > know this. I have to agree with Don, and maybe try to offer an additional couple of notes. I think, and this is only me - not supported by any facts, that it would be useful having a highlights section in the release notes, since the efforts of the developers (of which I hope to be able to contribute too soon) make sure that each release results in *many* updates. I would propose classifying these updates into a number of categories, that would help users identify is (a) it is worth them updgrading and (maybe more important) (b) if it is worth them trying to use PGSQL now that "XYZ" has been fixed/implemented. A quick suggested list: 1. New features 2. Major Performance Updates 3. Major Bug Fixes 4. Security / Reliability Changes 5. Other Listing updates simple in reverse time order is too confusing. BTW If no one has time, I will volunteer to do this... just my $.04c (inflation) -- Peter Galbavy Knowledge Matters Ltd http://www.knowledge.com/
At 02:03 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote: >This was posted ~ 6 monthes ago -:) Oh, I've only been reading the list for a few weeks... - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
On 08-Jun-99 Vadim Mikheev wrote: > Don Baccus wrote: >> >> Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered >> by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come >> up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to >> photography, I'm afraid! >> >> I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it >> were available... > > I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such > things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers? > > Vadim > P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com> I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/ Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
Вложения
Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/ > Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up. I like it too. So, any chance to put all these and others somewhere in www.postgresql.org? Vadim
On 08-Jun-99 Vadim Mikheev wrote: > Vince Vielhaber wrote: >> >> I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/ >> Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up. > > I like it too. > So, any chance to put all these and others somewhere > in www.postgresql.org? Something that I've been thinking about for the new site, since more than one of us is thinking this it'll be there (I no longer have to wonder if it's a good idea :) Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Vadim Mikheev wrote:
> Don Baccus wrote:
> >
> > Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
> > by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
> > up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
> > photography, I'm afraid!
> >
> > I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
> > were available...
>
> I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
> things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?
>
> Vadim
> P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 07:32:41AM -0700, Don Baccus wrote: > > I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups, > > I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very > > negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing > > of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad > > ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are > > three huge improvements for people building web sites. > > Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to > > know this. > > I have to agree with Don, and maybe try to offer an additional couple > of notes. I think, and this is only me - not supported by any facts, > that it would be useful having a highlights section in the release > notes, since the efforts of the developers (of which I hope to be able > to contribute too soon) make sure that each release results in *many* > updates. I would propose classifying these updates into a number of > categories, that would help users identify is (a) it is worth them > updgrading and (maybe more important) (b) if it is worth them trying > to use PGSQL now that "XYZ" has been fixed/implemented. > > A quick suggested list: > > 1. New features > 2. Major Performance Updates > 3. Major Bug Fixes > 4. Security / Reliability Changes > 5. Other > > Listing updates simple in reverse time order is too confusing. > Already done, on web site, and release notes. Sections are Bugs, Enhancements, Source code changes. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
At 02:48 PM 6/8/99 -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote: >I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/ >Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up. I do, too! A little more subdued and not quite as distracting. If you want to see how it looks on a page, it now appears on all pages at http://donb.photo.net/tweeterdom. (AOLServer makes it easy to decorate all pages coming out of a site so adding things like this is a piece of cake). You'll notice I made it a link to http://www.postgresql.org... - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net
On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*
Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :)
>
> On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Vadim Mikheev wrote:
>
> > Don Baccus wrote:
> > >
> > > Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
> > > by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
> > > up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
> > > photography, I'm afraid!
> > >
> > > I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
> > > were available...
> >
> > I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
> > things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?
> >
> > Vadim
> > P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>
>
> Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
>
>
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
On 08-Jun-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
>>
>> Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*
>
> Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :)
Actually I hoped you were typing at Vadim! I totally forgot about it,
kinda, since I'm more looking to the new stuff (which I'm still waiting
for final decisions so we can get going). Also it occurred to me a few
minutes ago that we never *really* got an approval from the elephant's
author to use that logo - unless core heard something that I didn't.
Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h>
TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore
http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================
I asked Jan about it over a month ago, and his response to me was that we could use it... On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > On 08-Jun-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > >> > >> Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow* > > > > Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :) > > Actually I hoped you were typing at Vadim! I totally forgot about it, > kinda, since I'm more looking to the new stuff (which I'm still waiting > for final decisions so we can get going). Also it occurred to me a few > minutes ago that we never *really* got an approval from the elephant's > author to use that logo - unless core heard something that I didn't. > > Vince. > -- > ========================================================================== > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null > # include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2 > Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com > Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com > ========================================================================== > > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> > > Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
> > > announcement/release notes?
> > I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
> > I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
> > I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...
> Added to release notes:
> Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:
> pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)
?? "I've added a mention of this in the release notes" was supposed to
keep you from doing anything! Wholesale reorganization isn't likely to
make it into hardcopy, and I'm not happy about that. Please remember
that I've already generated hardcopy for a release that was supposed
to happen tomorrow, so gratuitous changes aren't going to go over very
well with me :/
I see that lock.sgml has been updated. But I'll probably need ~2 days
elapsed to finish off the docs, as I mentioned last week.
- Thomas
--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California
> > > > Or you talk that this should be mentioned in > > > > announcement/release notes? > > > I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since > > > I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those. > > > I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also... > > Added to release notes: > > Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list: > > pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim) > > ?? "I've added a mention of this in the release notes" was supposed to > keep you from doing anything! Wholesale reorganization isn't likely to > make it into hardcopy, and I'm not happy about that. Please remember > that I've already generated hardcopy for a release that was supposed > to happen tomorrow, so gratuitous changes aren't going to go over very > well with me :/ > > I see that lock.sgml has been updated. But I'll probably need ~2 days > elapsed to finish off the docs, as I mentioned last week. OK, I am confused. What should we do or not do? I thought release notes->HISTORY was OK for changes. I realize lock.sgml is harder. Is it because the release notes are also in admin.gz? -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026